What kind of “discussion” beyond “Don’t Go To Trumpist USA It’s Not Worth It, PS RIP Their Tourist Industry” do you want to meaningfully have?

The Spanish prime minister is a Chinese plant and the Guardian is a mouthpiece for Russian propaganda. What the actual fuck.

Some of you are becoming reverse tankies and the paranoia is starting to become annoying. Europe doesn’t need McCarthyism.

And my grandmother might be a trolleybus. Do better.

The Guardian is a Russian propaganda mouthpiece now?

“The lady doth protest too much, methinks”

Your response is just a mix of historical inaccuracies, strategic misreadings, and ideological bias. Calling the US “lethargic” in Iraq and Afghanistan ignores the brutal reality of two decades of military intervention, not a lack of willpower. Iran’s interest in nuclear weapons isn’t some irrational hatred of Israel; it’s a classic deterrence strategy, shaped by watching the US topple regimes in Iraq and Libya. You dismiss this with a shrug while ignoring IAEA reports and decades of nuclear hedging.

You also misrepresent diplomatic dynamics. Turkey-Israel relations have been rocky for over a decade, especially after the Gaza flotilla raid. Saudi-Israeli normalization has stalled due to overwhelming regional anger over Gaza. If (when?) Israel moves forward with ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank as the Israeli right and centre want, it will make things even worse. Saying no one besides Israel wants nukes in the region is false. Saudi Arabia and the UAE have made public statements on the matter. Even Turkey has hinted it won’t be left behind. Downplaying North Korea’s deterrent as something the US could wipe out without nukes is reckless fantasy. Seoul would be in ruins before the second wave of bombers took off.

If you’re going to talk strategy, bring facts, not slogans. I said “live by the sword, die by the sword” to point out that violent actions have consequences. You replied with “Allahu Akbar” like I’m some kind of fanatic. That’s not debate, it’s just trolling and deflection. If your instinct is to hear a moral warning and turn it into a caricature, that says more about you than it does about me.

Ps. I edited my previous post to clarify who’s “they”.

Disgusting lickspittle.

Well clearly you have me all figured out, motives and all.

My original argument is specific: the way the European powers have aligned themselves with Israeli craziness does not inspire confidence that the Democrats would have been less hawkish. Underlying assumption: the Democrats tend to be as dovish as the Europeans.

The previous commenter made a counterfactual claim that Harris would not have pulled out of JCPOA and I pointed out that a Harris admin wouldn’t have a JCPOA to pull out of.

You’re now spinning a narrative around these very simple things I’ve said. Did the tankies hurt you and now you see them everywhere?

This a knee jerk reaction that misunderstands what I’m actually saying. It might have been whataboutism if I was making a “yea but what about whaaa” cheap shot at derailing the discussion. I wasn’t however. I talked about how the one situation impacts the other and is made more expensive and difficult by the other. Spain happens to be one of the very few western countries to speak up against the madness in the middle east and about the importance of international law. It is objectively harder to pass and enforce sanctions on Russia precisely because a bunch of non western countries just see the double standard and refuse to cooperate. Our support for the Israeli apartheid regime is making it harder to make politically the case for Ukraine, making it harder to encircle and contain Russia, erodes morale in our own countries and diverts resources and energy to adventurist dead ends.

Trump killed off the JCPOA in 2018. Biden had four years after 2020 to do something about that and didn’t. So I don’t know what you’re basing your assertion on, it sounds more like wishful thinking to me.

The Israeli apartheid regime’s genocidal policies and its reckless adventuring are far more dangerous generators of existential threats. This war all but guarantees nuclear proliferation in the middle east. Every potential rival of Israel from the Saudis and the Turks to Iranians themselves have just gotten a big red flashing warning in their inboxes that the Jewish-supremacist Israeli apartheid regime and its Jewish-supremacist allies in the West are not rational actors that can be negotiated with. The Westerners and Israel will break deals (like the deal Iran had actually signed), will negotiate in bad faith, will initiate first strikes and will bomb your civilian population following the insane Dahiya doctrine. The only thing they understand is mutually assured destruction (nobody touches the rocket-man in North Korea!). So why the fuck shouldn’t all of the other regional powers race for nuclear weapons at this point?

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Edit: clarified ambiguous “they”.

But Germany’s Staatsräson says you have to do whatever Israel wants.

Given how Germany, France, the UK etc have all lined up behind Israel, towing the line that Israel has a right to defend itself, and even going as far as saying that Israel is doing our dirty work for us, I have very serious doubts that Harris would not have followed Israel down the warpath.

That threat might be easier to contain if Europe didn’t waste all its soft power and international credibility supporting a genocidal apartheid regime and alienating the entirety of the non western world.

To be perfectly clear: at no point has Iran (a non nuclear power) actually existentially threatened Israel (a nuclear power). Netanyahu’s and the Israeli far right’s opportunistically alarmist rhetoric is not fact.

Merkel is just parroting Israeli far-right talking points with no basis in fact.

This is yet another example of the German political establishment taking extremist pro-israeli positions. Contemptible, shameful fucks.

Skyrim something about Vici.

Trump isn’t “considering” anything. He’s not a rational actor, he’s a narcissistic egomaniac, unable to ask or take advice, unable to think about anything that isn’t about how cool he is perceived.

This is what happens when you make your Staatsräson “never again to those people in particular” as opposed to “never again to anyone ever”, then spend two years pretending that anti-Semitism is an imported problem, and end up saying that an illegal war by a genocidal apartheid state is your own dirty business.

I don’t know what “the tiktok crowd” is, but I suspect you’re talking about the woke left somehow. So let me respond to what I think you’re saying, and if I’m misunderstanding, just correct me. Nobody in the woke left is thinking that “the Jews are doing a genocide against Muslims”. The accusation is that Israel is committing a genocide against the Palestinians. Israel and Jewish people: not the same thing. Muslims and Palestinians: not the same thing.

I think that’s exactly the reference here.