I would go even further. A masked individual tries to abduct people? It’s perfectly legal for anyone to shoot them dead right on the spot. Law enforcement who dress like human traffickers should be put in the ground like human traffickers.

What you’re apparently too blind to see is that Trump doesn’t deport illegal immigrants - he MAKES illegal immigrants. He’s turning legal immigrants into illegal immigrants by revoking their immigration status. And he wants to do the same to born US citizens.

And you can try to breeze away the problems of lacking birthright citizenship with your hypothetical, but it’s just that, a hypothetical. Meanwhile, in actual history, when you don’t have something like birthright citizenship, you DO end up with a multigenerational slave caste. You can never remove everyone as business interests don’t actually want the undocumented population removed. They just want them in hiding and in fear so they can exploit their labor.

The US also has along history of not granting full citizenship to large swathes of its population. We had widespread chattel slavery. We had Jim Crow. We still have prison slavery. We have a long history of our worst people trying to deliberately engineer a class of people who don’t fully count as human and can thus become cheap exploitable labor. That’s why we need a hard rule that says, “fuck you, you asshat politician. Everyone born here is a citizen, full stop.”

Europe is hardly a model to emulate. Many European countries have just the type of slave caste I’m talking about - unassimilated groups of immigrants that have been there for generations yet still lack citizenship.

If you were born here, you deserve to be a citizen. Your very physical being is formed from the air, the water, and the food of this land. Anyone born in America is an American, and any US politician who refuses this truth deserves to be hanged for treason against the Republic. Trump literally deserves to be hanged for this. That is not an exaggeration or hyperbole. He literally deserves to die for this. In a just world, he would be tried and executed for his betrayal of this fundamental American value. He has committed treason against the Republic.

You’re setting up a clearly misleading and manipulative standard so you can play some horseshit “gotcha” based on a technicality. Obviously the VP doesn’t control immigration, but who the fuck cares and why would you make that your standard? Kamala was running for president, and she promised to run her administration exactly like Biden’s. We have to judge Kamala by Biden’s performance, as she promised to continue his policies.

But here you are trying to defend her on a technicality, saying, “nu huh, acktually, she wasn’t in charge of immigration, she was only the VP!”

Manipulative petty bullshit. It’s transparently bad faith.

Republicans are a lot ruder, cruder, and more lawless about their deportations. They want people afraid while they’re conducting their mass deportations. In contrast, Democrats want you to feel they love immigrants…while they conduct the same mass deportations.

It is just a vibes things. The numbers speak for themselves.

You’re full of shit with your “when she was VP” loaded question.

Other nations wouldn’t invade. But in the event of a civil war, you can be certain they would be sending in plenty of heavy weaponry.

That goes both ways, and states need to start acting on it. They need to start passing a flurry of laws criminalizing ICE tactics. Pass laws making it a felony to:

• Conduct law enforcement while masked

• To search homes without a warrant

• To enter various protected locations for law enforcement purposes when there isn’t an immediate threat.

They need to take cues from the anti-abortion playbook. Pass a law requiring all immigration detainees be transported in limousines. Require ICE to old prisoners in five star hotels. Require immigration officers to have at least two doctoral degrees. Make it a felony to do immigration enforcement without doing these things. Just start writing dozens of crazy laws criminalizing every aspect of ICE’s operations. Then let the individual ICE agents try and challenge them individually.

States need to criminalize the behavior of ICE officers and start arresting them en masse. ICE agents will be free to challenge their imprisonment individually.

This is technically true, but it’s also wrong.

Yes, they didn’t technically rule on birthright citizenship, but it doesn’t matter. Without national injunctions, your right to birthright citizenship doesn’t actually exist as a practical matter.

By the time you can file your individual case challenging the revocation of your citizenship, you’ll already be in an ICE concentration camp. And you don’t have a right to an attorney during immigration proceedings.

This is just cope. They did give the OK. They didn’t technically say he could revoke birthright citizenship, but they removed the ability for people to effectively challenge the revocation of their citizenship. If you can’t actually exercise your rights, then your rights don’t exist.

But keep huffing the copium.

At the very least, I would like to see every Democratic lawmaker calling for the open violation of Supreme Court rulings. They are a fundamentally illegitimate institutions. Their opinions should be given less respect than the opinions of a shit-covered hobo holding an “the end is near” sign by the side of the road.

No we should deport the Trumps. I’m sure we can find some minor error or omission in his father’s old citizenship application. Do what they’re doing - go back up the family tree, declare their ancestor’s citizenship fraudulent, and deport their whole rotten family tree.

Europe isn’t the Americas. Nearly every country in the Americas has birthright citizenship. Your nation is an outlier in the Western Hemisphere if it doesn’t have birthright citizenship. In any country composed of large settler populations, birthright citizenship is essential to preventing the formation of a slave caste. If you lack it, you inevitably end up with multi-generational illegal immigrant communities, which end up forming a slave caste of exploitable labor.

I for one oppose the creation of a slave caste, so I am in favor of birthright citizenship.

You missed the point. The point is Democrats and Republicans have both been massively against immigration and been pro-deportation. You are confusing vibes for real policy. Republicans and Democrats are both pro-mass deportation. Republicans are just a lot more performatively cruel about it. These are the vibes I’m referring to. People like you confuse vibes for actual policy and convince yourselves that Republicans have massively changed the immigration situation relative to Biden.

A hypothetical Kamala administration can be seen as a direct continuation of Biden’s, as she herself said that she would do nothing different than Biden.

It’s different, but only in terms of vibes.

Any Democrat? How about Kamala herself. Do you not remember Kamala’s “do not come” speech?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpGitFIzamQ

Sorry, but I have to call you out on this. This “fuck right off” attitude is exactly why Democrats lose elections. You know how people call Democrats smug and out of touch? It’s because of this right here.

People hate Democrats when they’re smug assholes. Democrats do generally have better policy positions than Republicans. But many Democrats take this way too far, adopting a sports team attitude of their side being always right.

OP rightfully pointed out that Democrats are just as onboard with mass deportation as Republicans. Trump is currently using the mass ICE infrastructure that Biden helped build up to new heights. On immigration, both parties are extremely right wing. This is an absolute, indisputably true fact. But you then have the arrogance to tell someone pointing this out to “fuck right off.”

This is why democrats lose elections. This is the smugness people hate. Many liberals view politics as a sports team and refuse to accept the failures of their own team. And on immigration, Democrats are only a tiny iota better than Republicans.

Quit being such a smug asshole. It only hurts your cause. (Assuming you’re actually a Democrat and not just a Republican trying to make liberals look bad.)

This is why it’s so important to have Democratic politicians who actually stand for something.

I see so many people trapped in a state of denial about elections. They hold desperately to the idea that Democrats can somehow magically win simply by not being Republicans. That doesn’t work, hasn’t worked, and will never work. The problem with this standard is that it encourages Democrats to be only a tiny little bit better than the fascists, making the election fascist vs. fascist lite, so of course tons of people stay home.

But people like yelling at voters instead of the powerful politicians; it’s always easier to punch down than punch up. Republicans scapegoat minorities, Democrats scapegoat their voters. Democrats nominate fascist-lite candidates election after election and then bitch at the voters for not bothering to vote.

But denial apparently is a river in Egypt, so people will continue to blame voters instead of the fascist-lite Democrats.

And truthfully, it is impossible to fill out any immigration paperwork without “lying” on it. With the sheer amount of information they demand, it’s impossible to not make some mistake or leave something out.